tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post5007699220631692306..comments2024-03-01T14:01:34.480-08:00Comments on Marvel in the Silver Age: Exposed: Myths of Marvel's Silver Age - Part 2AirPiratePresshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13136561512898563240noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-66670354522468305152021-10-10T01:28:17.574-07:002021-10-10T01:28:17.574-07:00"Success has a thousand fathers, but failure ..."Success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan." I've heard all these stories before. They can be found in almost every other, Stan-bashing account of the times. The above column was intended to be a ripost to those stories, offering a slightly different, hopefully more balanced, point of view.<br /><br />You yourself point out that even Stan talks about the massive contributions to the Marvel storylines that the artists made, so it's not like it's a Conspiracy of Silence.<br /><br />I just wanted readers to consider that there may have been underlying reasons why some of those artists felt disgruntled with the way Stan worked and others relished it.AirPiratePresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136561512898563240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-31883112545912200102021-10-06T12:44:50.045-07:002021-10-06T12:44:50.045-07:00Really great column. Just one word on Wally Wood&#...Really great column. Just one word on Wally Wood's version of working with Stan -- he's not the only one to tell it that way.<br /><br />STAN GOLDBERG: “Jack would sit there at lunch, and tell us these great ideas about what he was going to do next. It was like the ideas were bursting from every pore of his body. It was very interesting because he was a fountain of ideas. Stan would drive me home and we’d plot our stories in the car. I’d say to Stan, “How’s this? Millie loses her job.” He’d say, “Great! Give me 25 pages.” And that took him off the hook.<br /><br />One time I was in Stan’s office and I told him, “I don’t have another plot.” Stan got out of his chair and walked over to me, looked me in the face, and said very seriously, “I don’t ever want to hear you say you can’t think of another plot.” Then he walked back and sat down in his chair. He didn’t think he needed to tell me anything more.<br /><br />Jim Amash: Sounds like you were doing most of the writing then.<br /><br />"Well, I was.”<br /><br /> <br /><br />JOE ORLANDO: “He really didn’t seem to have any ideas, but we worked out a plot, and he sent me the synopsis. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it. In one line, Stan indicated that he wanted a three-page fight sequence, in a garage, or whatever. Nothing else. So I called and asked him what I should do. He said, ‘You know, throw some tires around, do something with some oil, make it up as you go.’ Well, that didn’t help.”<br /><br />DICK AYERS (as told to Barry Pearl): “Dick told us how Stan called him one day and said, “I can’t think of a story for Sgt. Fury #23. We won’t have an issue unless you think of something!”<br /><br />A worried Dick could not sleep that night and kept Lindy awake too. They talked about story after story until, in the middle of the night, Lindy came up with the idea of the Howlers saving a nun and her young charges. Dick said, ‘Stan will never go for that, he wants nothing about religion… But I’ll ask him.’<br /><br />When Dick did, Stan said, ‘What a great idea, I’ll use it.’ So they put together a terrific story. When Dick’s finished pages were shown to him, he saw the credits where he was only listed as artist. He went to Stan’s office and asked if he could also be listed as co-plotter. Stan yelled, ‘Since when did you develop an ego? Get out of here!’”<br /><br />STEVE DITKO: “I was publicly credited as plotter only starting with issue #26. The lifting sequence is in issue #33.<br /><br />The fact is we had no story or idea discussion about some Spider-Man books even before issue #26 up to when I left the book.<br /><br />Stan never knew what was in my plotted stories until I took in the penciled story, the cover, my script and Sol Brodsky took the material from me and took it all into Stan’s office, so I had to leave without seeing or talking to Stan.”<br /><br />“Lee started out early with his self-serving, self-claiming, self-gratifying style, of giving credit and then undercutting the giving by taking away or claiming most or all of the credit.”<br /><br />And even Stan says that sometimes the artist provides the story:<br /><br />“Some artists, of course, need a more detailed plot than others. Some artists, such as Jack Kirby, need no plot at all. I mean I’ll just say to Jack, “Let’s let the next villain be Dr. Doom”… or I may not even say that. He may tell me. And then he goes home and does it. He’s so good at plots, I’m sure he’s a thousand times better than I. He just about makes up the plots for these stories. All I do is a little editing… I may tell him that he’s gone too far in one direction or another. Of course, occasionally I’ll give him a plot, but we’re practically both the writers on the things.” –Castle of Frankenstein, 1968<br /><br />When combined with Kirby's and Wood's accounts, hearing the same story over and over from various collaborators, it starts to paint a picture. And when you consider some of the same plot elements were used in pre-Stan Kirby stories -- like a man getting the powers of Thor after finding his hammer -- I don't think those artists' accounts should be dismissed entirely.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16045274386653160760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-37122802875714801582020-04-13T11:46:03.654-07:002020-04-13T11:46:03.654-07:00Like you, Lord Mikolaj, I thought Comix was great ...Like you, Lord Mikolaj, I thought Comix was great at the time, but in retrospect, you can see that the research was a little light. Over the years, the written histories have gotten better. Fanzine interviews with the professionals who were part of that history have given us a great source of first-hand accounts, which of course weren't available to Daniels back in 1971 ...AirPiratePresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136561512898563240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-18991953577207122802020-04-13T08:57:50.765-07:002020-04-13T08:57:50.765-07:00The great thing about Comix by Les is that they re...The great thing about Comix by Les is that they reprinted full stories which to my young mind was amazing. I had also bought the Feiffer book and All in Color for a Dime. I was close to 15 I think. The Penguin book was amazing because I found out other countries had their own, unique history. Hard to believe I am 63 already!lord mikolajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883374199793900982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-65859346538425056212020-04-12T07:07:08.150-07:002020-04-12T07:07:08.150-07:00I think I first saw the 1967 edition in my school ...I think I first saw the 1967 edition in my school library. By the time I could afford to buy a copy, they'd gone to a second edition - no eBay in those days! But the one pictured is the one I had. A short time later, I got a copy of "Comix", which I thought was great at the time, but it doesn't hold up terribly well ...AirPiratePresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136561512898563240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-65913866206652073932020-04-03T09:30:19.909-07:002020-04-03T09:30:19.909-07:00Meant to say, Al, The Penguin Book Of Comics was f...Meant to say, Al, The Penguin Book Of Comics was first published in 1967 - that's the revised edition, which as you say, was issued in 1971. For an interesting story behind them, type the name of the book into my blog's search box.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-10331741748240447322020-03-31T02:56:05.944-07:002020-03-31T02:56:05.944-07:00I think that may well be right ... I just thought ...I think that may well be right ... I just thought it interesting that both Amazing Adult Fantasy and Fantastic Four debuted at almost the same time, and that they shared a logo style (which you had pointed out to me a while back). I'm already about 25% in to the next (and final) section of this trip through Marvel Myths, so it should be sooner rather than later.AirPiratePresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136561512898563240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8419605150672201683.post-87520826790861658092020-03-31T02:04:52.388-07:002020-03-31T02:04:52.388-07:00Another interesting article, Al. Y'know, I'...Another interesting article, Al. Y'know, I'm sure Stan, who'd been working in comics since he was 17, often moaned to his wife about how fed up he was in the job and how he was thinking of quitting, only for Joan to talk him out of it. It was probably this that he was remembering when he wrote Origins Of Marvel Comics in 1974, and perhaps (given his famously bad memory) he just assumed it must've been around the time of FF, hence tied the anecdote to that particular mag. Which is not necessarily to contradict what you said, but just add a little something to it for consideration. <br /><br />Looking forward to the next part.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.com